In his first post-retirement interview with WWE champion Cody Rhodes on the What Do You Wanna Talk About? podcast, John Cena described in detail the meaning behind tapping out in his final match against Gunther.

“For the last five minutes, everything I preach about story and drama and having a conversation with the audience…The ones I love are in the front row,” Cena told Cody. “I know my colleagues are watching on the monitor back there. We’re just in a sleeper hold, man. We’re just in a sleeper hold. But we’re having that conversation with the audience.”

The tap out was widely panned by fans and critics and was seen as something that goes against what John Cena has preached for the past 20 years: never give up.

Cena described him tapping out as taking his last breath after struggling, comparing it to somebody passing away and the final moments of their life before they let go.

“So as I essentially take my last breath, I have struggled. If you think of somebody, the natural causes scenario or however we picture loss in our life. All of us have been through it,” Cena continued. “They struggle, they struggle, they struggle, they hang on just long enough to make sure to say goodbye to everybody that’s been meaningful in their lives.”

He said that on that Saturday, he had many vulnerable, meaningful conversations with a lot of people and he connected with everybody he loves.

“Physically, I feel great. I think it’s time to take that last breath. And that’s that…I hate to keep going back morbidly to obituaries, but this person died peacefully,” he said. “And knowing that like, man, we are in a good place. We’re going to be great going forward. The bottom of the T-shirt says, ‘I gave everything, thank you for everything.’ And that one moment…that was that, going peacefully.”

The 17-time world champion also added that Saturday far exceeded everything he envisioned and discussed how he had a final toast with the whole WWE locker room before the show to thank them for everything they have done leading up to the day.

The full conversation can be seen below.